A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking

The Town Council meeting on Monday 24th February had an air of anticipation. Two years ago the parking issue was resolved at a public meeting. Now parking is back on the agenda. High Street business owners and some residents attended this meeting, showing that there's a genuine concern about how the Town Council would deal with this issue.

In the "Public Participation" segment at the start of the meeting a selection of business owners and a local resident appealed to the Town Council not to jeopardise free parking in our car parks. They felt that such a decision would damage the economy and very fabric of our Town Centre.

It was stressed that this plan could drive more shoppers out of the town centres, and further afield. Human nature could see visitors trying to park anywhere but in the car parks, thereby creating a new parking issue that could lead to County involvement.

In that event, options open to County to control parking on the High Street could include the installation of parking meters. To protect residents from abusive parking they could bring in residential parking permits, all of which would cost our residents dearly.

The agenda was then resumed and various items were raised and dealt with. Finally parking was reached and the Councillors discussed the current contract the town has with SSDC. Is it a three-year rolling contract, renewed for a further three year term (subject to negotiations) every three years? Or is it an annual renewable contract that requires three years notice to cancel? The discussion didn't really progress any further, and there was no clear agreement.

The Chairman of the Council, Mayor Deryk Lemon did his best to summarise the main options and points of concern, which we believe are as follows. This is a reasonably accurate reproduction of the list of options presented on a photocopied sheet to each Councillor present.

1. Notify SSDC that Wincanton Town Council wishes to revert back to the three-year contract ending in 2015.
2. Return all car parks to SSDC control at the end of the three-year period. Notification would have to be during April 2014.
3. SSDC may then implement charges.
4. Introduce a free period of 1-2 hours if charges are introduced (SSDC do not like this idea).
5. Enforcement of the current short/long-stay periods. This could be started now.
6. Review the statutory regulations relating to permitted length of stay per car park.
7. Introduce residents' permits and enforcement. Enforcement and administration could be conducted by SSDC. Cost would be deducted from any income (for example: £6.50 would be deducted from a £25 fine). This could be started now.
8. Wincanton Town Council to continue to subsidise via the precept or implement charges.
9. Capital and Enforcement cost. Concern was expressed relating to the cost of installing machines and the related enforcement which would be beyond the Town Council's capability. [We think that this option comes into play if Wincanton Town Council decides to keep control of the car parks and then introduce local parking charges themselves.]

Despite the distinct lack of discussion about the options available, Councillor Richard D'Arcy proposed that WTC should give 12 months' notice to terminate the current agreement, and negotiate a new agreement to replace the current contract that finishes in 2015. This notice must be given by April to stand. Councillor D'Arcy did state that despite giving such notice they could still change their minds along the way and elect to renew the current terms of contract. This motion was seconded and the proposal was carried

This resolution was not well received by the visitors who had come specifically to hear the parking debate and resolution. The visitors and press then left the hall.

Outside the hall discussion amongst the visitors continued. There was clear disappointment and frustration at the way this issue had been handled. There was a distinct belief that Town Council, in making this decision, was leaving our High Street businesses and economy open to further damage. Instead of helping and encouraging the High Street they are now expecting to see a further reduction in footfall and the resultant financial damage.

A point of contention was raised in that Councillor Winder proposed that WTC accept item 8 in the list of options. Councillor Emery seconded the proposal but there was no subsequent vote before Councillor D'Arcy made his proposal.

We have contacted the Town Clerk asking for clarification. At this time we haven't had a reply, but it's possible that this has to be discussed at the next Council meeting before a considered reply can be given.

Comments

johnbaxter
Posts: 1

Town Council Meeting
Reply #1 on : Tue March 04, 2014, 21:14:12

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I am confused. Why has the WTC decided to terminate the present agreement with SSDC for free car parking in return for a small sum on the precept? Who has complained about that? How nice it would be if Councillors D'Arcy and Winder could explain their thinking here.

sam
Posts: 4

Re: A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking
Reply #2 on : Wed March 05, 2014, 20:08:23

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I have not received any request to clarify anything. John you and any one else who needs to know anything regarding Council meetings or business can contact me at the Town Hall on 01963 31693 or pop in. The Town Council represents all residents of the Town and decisions are made to reflect that.

mandycochrane
Posts: 4

A good opportunity to clarify
Reply #3 on : Thu March 06, 2014, 07:01:25

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Hi Sam. Would this forum not provide a good opportunity to clarify the obvious confusion? We appreciate that your door is always open, so to speak, but why field multiple enquiries when the Town Council can reassure all the residents of the town in one fell swoop right here?

The Town Council is in a difficult position and the decisions it has to take are complex ones; it would go some way to getting people on-side if the Town Council could explain their thinking.

johnsmith
Posts: 2

Town Council Meeting
Reply #4 on : Thu March 06, 2014, 12:27:00

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I e-mailed earlier in the week asking for clarification as to why a proposal that was seconded, was not put to a vote. To date I haven't had a reply.

sam
Posts: 4

Re: A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking
Reply #5 on : Thu March 06, 2014, 15:03:43

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You must have the wrong email address it is
Wincantontownclerk@hotmail.co.uk

johnsmith
Posts: 2

E-mail
Reply #6 on : Thu March 06, 2014, 16:00:13

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Sorry Sam, I sent it to the new address with the new website. I have forwarded a copy to your Hotmail address.

Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 19:23:36 by johnsmith  

Simon
Posts: 2

Re: A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking
Reply #7 on : Thu March 06, 2014, 23:52:33

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I am astounded that introducing parking fines in an already struggling town is being seriously considered! Many towns, not dissimilar to Wincanton, are trying to INTRODUCE free car parking in recognition of what an important factor this is in the success of a town centre. Guaranteed with parking charges will come parking fines and that is a sure way to put people off revisiting! It is madness in my view ... but if car parking charges are to be introduced I would offer up the suggestion that at the very least it is a pay on return system thereby avoiding the need for cash in pocket to park and ensuring people can park without fear of parking fines. ..... of course I doubt the SSDC will want to do this as they purely want to make money from us, and parking fines is a great way of them achieving that! A very unhappy local and regular town shopper.

Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 23:53:54 by Simon  

Jules
Posts: 1

Parking charges!
Reply #8 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 09:14:27

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Like Simon - I too find it quite astounding that the town should even be considering parking charges again! You only have to drive/walk down the high street to see that the town is struggling but in the last few months there have been a "few little green shoots" and an optimist might even feel things were on the up! The Town Council have obviously got their scissors out and are cutting off any hope of a recovery. I shop regularly in Wincanton but will seriously have to go elsewhere if I have to pay for parking. 1 - 2 hours free would be slightly more acceptable but only just!

Nick Colbert
Posts: 3

Parking charges!
Reply #9 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 13:54:35

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It is good to read the views of Simon and Jules who I think aptly put the views of almost every one I have spoken to. I strongly object to the "car park compensation tax" being levied on the Town Council by South Somerset District Council and I wanted to fight it tooth and nail. However attending the public meeting and seeing the petition with in excess of 3,800 signatures the overwhelming support of the public was for the "compensation tax" to be paid and for parking to remain free.

Whilst I was up for the fight the vast majority of others were not and the District Council knows we were not going to be able to afford a judicial review to fight them, especially as they have a legal team behind them employed using our rates.

Given that the public in Wincanton spoke so strongly on the subject it understandably is creating enormous waves when it appears to them that the Town Council would go back on its fairly recent decision.

I understand the Town Councils reluctance to have to pay the "compensation tax", it is wrong and unfair that the population of Wincanton should have to subsidise the wealthier residents who live in the villages surrounding Wincanton and who use the car parks.

That said I support the view of the vast majority that 30p per week to keep our High Street alive is a small price to pay, and residents in Wincanton would end up paying more than that in parking charges and fines if they were to be introduced and would you expect to see your rates bill reduced if the compensation tax was not paid (I think not). The current system seems to me to be the best of two evils and our High Street needs all the help it can get.

As justification to introduce parking charges one Councillor once said to me that "People from Overton are parking overnight in the Long stay car park at Carrington Way, I know they do because there is frost on the cars there in the morning." I am not sorry for disagreeing with his view, Flingers Lane and Overton are narrow, parked cars there would block any emergency vehicles accessing there. The residents of that area should be able to park overnight in that car park, it would be empty otherwise, that is what it is for. It is not there to generate profits for South Somerset District Council.

I suspect we shall see a fairly heated debate with much gnashing of teeth, where is "The Animal".

Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 14:00:04 by Nick Colbert  

i-sgallery
Posts: 3

Re: A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking
Reply #10 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 14:06:22

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I think it's a great idea to have a debate on Wincanton Window; it is a natural forum and everybody without fear or favour can contribute. This way we can all brainstorm and look for the "genius" solution the Mayor spoke of. We have heard many people say that Wincanton is becoming a nice place to visit & there are some interesting shops now; so yes we are seeing some green shoots and we do not want to kill them off. Since the last TC Meeting 2 weeks ago I have asked at least 50 customers their views on the proposed parking charges. Without exception they said they probably wouldn't come into Wincanton at all if the charges were brought in.
On 2nd March I asked on the thread "Parking Meters in Wincanton - The Debate Continues": "Can the town clerk confirm that if parking meters are introduced we can expect to see our council tax bills reduced by about £15 per household (the amount we currently pay to keep our car parks free)" or is there some hidden agenda to spend the car park precept on some other project? To date there is no reply however we have been told that the money will be channelled into other projects.

An important question is what exact date is the TC intending to give formal notice (or has this already happened)? I would like to propose, given the importance of this issue, that a public meeting is held to discuss car parking before we take a step that is irreversible.
As I understand it our Town Council has voted to try to 'break' the current contract that would have seen meter free car parks for at least the next 3 years. The contract was only signed 2 years ago and was discussed and agreed by Councillors at that time as the best deal for Wincanton. What, please tell us, has happened in these 2 years to prompt such a 'U' turn? Not only was the vote not to 'renew' but to actually 'break' the contract.

Our wish is to see Wincanton thrive.

sam
Posts: 4

Re: A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking
Reply #11 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 15:03:09

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Wincanton Town Council signed a 3 year compensation agreement with SSDC to prevent charges in Wincanton car parks. Council voted at the last meeting to request the term rolling is removed from the agreement and to give formal notice to end the agreement May 2015. This in turn will give a year to negotiate.

I have received a response from the leader of SSDC who will accept the ending of the current agreement and is more than willing to negotiate other options going forward. The Council and SSDC will work together to achieve the best solution.

SSDC own the car parks and Council do not support car parking charges in the Town.

i-sgallery
Posts: 3

Re: A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking
Reply #12 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 17:27:43

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Your last paragraph saying Council do not support car parking charges in the Town is nothing more than 'spin' and people will see straight through this.
Under the previous Mayor and as a result of great public support, Wincanton Town Council signed a 3 year 'ROLLING' contract which was the best deal they could get for the town under the circumstances.
At the last Council Meeting on 24th February 2014 I witnessed a proposal to continue this free parking agreement which was then seconded but the current Mayor neglected to take a vote on it and instead went straight to the motion to remove 'rolling' from the contract and give formal notice to end the agreement.
Although you had until April when you could have listened to the people of Wincanton you have rushed ahead and notified the leader of the SSDC and disregarded residents views.
Worse than this, you try to spin that you do not support car parking charges. The only way to show your support for free parking is to honour the rolling agreement that was signed in the best interests of our town.
PS I still haven't had a response to my question regarding the spending of the precept increase after you hand the car parks over to SSDC???

sam
Posts: 4

Re: A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking
Reply #13 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 18:13:32

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I-sgallery, can I suggest you put your question to council in writing to which we can formally reply.

Also I cannot say if your rates will go down as we do not receive anything from your business rates and the precept request for 2015 will not be discussed until the end of this year.

Simon
Posts: 2

Request for a urgent Car Parking meeting
Reply #14 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 20:18:32

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Firstly I am left a little confused - am I to understand that the TC have already written to SSDC to give notice to hand over the Towns car parks? Secondly I would support I-sgallery's request for a meeting to discuss this issue of parking. This strikes me as a sensible and reasonable request and may help clarify what is going on here. The things I would like addressed are:
- will Wincanton residents council rates go down if we are to lose the Towns free parking??
- how EXACTLY is TC going to work with SSDC on parking .... from what I understand once TC hand the car parks over they have precious little say and our lovely town will purely be a money maker for SSDC (surely its a bit like trying to get the monthly rent reduced once you have signed the tenancy contact?)
- on what basis has this decision been made by TC? I would seem a no brainer that we should all be fighting to keep free parking .... but I confess there may be things which I am not aware of that I would appreciate the TC enlightening me and the residents of Wincanton.

I am sorry but something just does not add up to me on this - is there another agenda going on here?

As a Wincanton resident how are we benefiting ... I can only see town degradation which inevitably leads to a fall in house prices!

A Town meeting please TC? I want to support but just do not understand the sense in this.

MarkD
Posts: 3

Meeting - yes please
Reply #15 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 20:39:01

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Evening all - I would just like to say that I was unaware (as are many of the people I have spoken to) until recently that there was any suggestion of charging for parking in Wincanton and I would very much appreciate a meeting to further understand and discuss this. I therefore second the proposed meeting. Many thanks

mandycochrane
Posts: 4

A Suggestion
Reply #16 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 21:09:46

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It's great to see everyone having a say on this topic, but if you're going to start proposing and seconding motions for public meetings, wouldn't you stand more chance of a response if that sort of request is channelled through Town Council themselves?

The Town Council seems willing to respond to public concern but it's unrealistic (and a little unfair?) to expect them to monitor the media 24/7 in order to catch requests for meetings. The Town Clerk has already invited you to get in touch - take her up on the offer.

That said, this is still a great place for the TC to add to their existing comments and clear up any confusion about what's happening.

MarkD
Posts: 3

Re: A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking
Reply #17 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 21:51:23

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Hi Mandycochrane

I appreciate your point, and I am not expecting to receive a response until the working week (I recognise I am 'out of hours' but given I work this is an appropriate time for me to give my input). The problem is that many of the general public do not seem to have been aware of this issue re: parking and as I understand it at the council meeting people did speak against parking charges (with no speakers supporting it) but to no avail and so it feels we need to make people aware and display support in order to be heard.

I fear that on a one on one we will be fobbed off (I appreciate this may not be fair and no offense is intended but I hope you understand my concern).

Most importantly - without this forum I would not have known others felt as I do and would not have known there was anything to 'second'.

I think a public meeting where we can understand all the issues and plans and try to make sense of this would be the best way to address this and hopefully we can work with our Town Council to find a way of keeping our free parking. It is not a them and us - as Sam says 'Council does not support parking charges' so a meeting may enable us to find a solution - other towns have managed to retain free parking and a great many more are fighting to claw back their car parks in order to offer free parking and keep their towns alive. Lets get a meeting planned, let the residents know about it and have an honest and open discussion as to the best way forward.

mandycochrane
Posts: 4

Town Council Response
Reply #18 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 22:40:10

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Mark, I agree with much of what you say - I do think a well publicised public meeting would be useful if sufficient clarification can't be given any other way. But when you say you don't expect a response until the working week, are you saying that you expect the Town Council to reply to the comments made here on Wincanton Window?

That's where I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make. Now I may be shooting myself in the foot here, because I'm the editor and I suppose I should be encouraging the Town Council to use Wincanton Window much more than they do. Don't get me wrong, I do, and they're welcome to; Our hope is that Wincanton Window is a bigger voice for the town than most other media but I'm not naive enough to assume that the Town Council is hanging on every word we publish, or every comment left on an article (in my dreams...). There are just too many blogs, websites and social media platforms pushing out news for them to keep up with and respond to everything.

Call me old-fashioned but I just think some things, like official requests for meetings, need to be made direct to the party you want to talk to.

But I do appreciate all the opinions being aired here and that's something that we definitely want to see more of. Keep them coming!

MarkD
Posts: 3

Re: A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking
Reply #19 on : Fri March 07, 2014, 23:21:26

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Hi Mandycochrane

I apologise if I gave the impression that I was demanding a meeting or response (this is not the case)- I simply noted that there had been a TC presence on this forum and wanted to put forward a meeting as a sensible suggestion.

I do appreciate the point you make and will certainly attempt to request a meeting via more formal channels however I personally feel that if you are in a position to serve your local town then in this day and age a forum such as 'Wincanton Window' is precisely where Town Councillors should be communicating with their local people.

Whether you love social media or hate it I am afraid it is part of modern life and TC's need to be in touch with the times and their local residents.

All this said I do not want to divert from the issue here which has to be 'doing what is in the best interests of Wincanton' so agree that we should encourage people to put forward their views and see if we can fight car parking charges.

mandycochrane
Posts: 4

Parking Response
Reply #20 on : Sat March 08, 2014, 08:40:13

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Well said Mark.

Nick Colbert
Posts: 3

The next Town Council meeting
Reply #21 on : Sat March 08, 2014, 12:58:15

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The next town council meeting is at 7.00pm on Monday 10th March, it starts with questions from the public.

Many residents have contacted me who attended the last Town Council meeting who have been left aghast at the way the Town Council is being run. Proper procedure was not followed.

Many were shocked that when Anna Groskop, an experienced County and District Councillor (since 1990) felt she had an important piece of information to add to the debate and the clerk prevented her from speaking. The Chairman (Mayor) controls the debate and should stop people who are being a nuisance interjecting, shouting or being repetitive to allow Town Councillors to properly conduct their debate. For the clerk to prevent an experienced County and District Councillor from imparting information she felt was valuable to the debate left many wondering what was going on. Councillor Groskop was invited to that meeting by the Town Council, I think an apology is in order.

I have also been asked how it was possible for Councillor Winder to propose Option 8 to be seconded by Councillor Maureen Emery and for no vote to be taken on this proposal.

The answer is simple, the meeting was not well run and correct procedures were not followed. If they had been after Councillor Winders seconded proposal the Chairman would have let debate continue until he felt the debate had run to its conclusion, then he would go to the vote. If a second proposal was put forward, as indeed it was by Councillor Richard D'arcy and correctly seconded by Councillor Rob Dickinson then protocol dictates that a vote is taken on the first proposal (Cllr Winders), if that is passed that is that, if it fails the Chairman then proceeds to the second vote which is either passed or fails.

This did not happen and the clerk has quoted Standing Order 6(V) as a reason. For the sake of clarity I have taken legal advice on this matter from a solicitor at Legal & Corporate Services (SSDC's in house solicitors) they state: "Standing Order 6(V) requires that if a Councillors motion is under debate no other motion can be moved unless it is to propose an amendment, adjourn or put the motion to the vote. Therefore as the second proposal was for a different option all together (and could not reasonably be considered to be an amendment), the vote should not have been taken."

There you have it in a nutshell, procedure was not followed correctly and the public are left wondering if there are secret agendas or shenanigans going on as per comments above. As such the lack of leadership is in serious danger of brining the Town Council into disrepute, a very sad affair. Most Councillors give up large amounts of their free time for the good of our Town and deserve the respect of the public for this, but mess ups like this cause damage to us all.

The question is "Where to go from here". I think the leadership of the Town Council and the clerk need to acknowledge their mistake, apologise and get their act together to ensure proper procedure is followed in future. Councillor Dickinson has proposed a meeting of Town Councillors, District Councillors and our County Councillor to thrash out a policy with the unanimous support from all 3 tiers of local government representing Wincanton so we have more strength in negotiations with South Somerset District Council. I think that is an excellent idea but many of the above comments show a serious desire by the public to attend a meeting so they can express their views and let us Councillors know what they would like us to do rather than us doing what we want to do, I think that is also an excellent idea.

Given the mess that has occurred I hope the Town Council will take a step back, organise those two meetings and then represent the Towns views on the thorny subject of "free parking".

Lastly I have written to the Mayor expressing my views on the way the Town Council has been run just recently, this letter should be read out under the correspondence section at the next Town Council meeting on 10th March by the clerk. So far there has been no apology and a defiant defence of what happened procedurally at the last meeting, we shall have to wait and see what happens in the future.

Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 13:02:31 by Nick Colbert  

Mark Henley
Posts: 1

Parking
Reply #22 on : Sat March 08, 2014, 13:16:09

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Having recently moved to Wincanton, I've been amazed by the shambles that is parking in Wincanton. Working at the sports centre / living in town I'd be happy to walk / cycle to work in order to save money / the planet. However that cant happen because I park in church fields and have to move my car every 24 hours otherwise I get a ticket! I'd happily not drive my car except for longer journeys but there is nowhere to leave it on a long term basis for people who live in Church street

i-sgallery
Posts: 3

Re: A Summary of the Town Council Meeting to Discuss Parking
Reply #23 on : Sat March 08, 2014, 16:45:06

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At last common sense is prevailing. Thank you Nick for putting it so clearly.

Now the legal position is clear, can we hold fire on changing the current contract until all bases have been covered and the meetings of residents and councillors have taken place. My fear is, if we get it wrong now, there is no going back.

PS Is the Council Meeting on Monday now at 7pm or 7.30pm as posted?

Once again many thanks.

Nick Colbert
Posts: 3

Time
Reply #24 on : Sun March 09, 2014, 10:59:29

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Oop's I put 7, you are quite correct it is 7.30pm, apologies.

The Animal
Posts: 2

... ... ... NO !
Reply #25 on : Sun March 09, 2014, 17:01:04

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Personally I feel pretty bad that this charging could be an option. and It has taken me quite a while to calm down to the point I am prepared to speak / type about it again.

I am a lucky person I live quite close enough to the Hi st to reach pretty much everything I need on foot, and I am also happy to say its helping with my weight loss, especially now we have some sun.

However. I feel that the use of closer parking is good for the use of local shops, carrying / pushing daughter + lots of shopping from co-op or the Butchers = AHHHGH !!! free parking means this is easier and more accessible.
Then there are those less fortunate than myself, living further away, perhaps the elderly and disabled. and those with lower income.

add all this to the shear fact that Wincanton does (apparently) very little to attract tourism / day trippers. and the current low usage of the car-parks. OK - I agree some of the street parking - especially at the top can be pretty heavy. But the car-parks, always plenty of space. so supposing pay machines go in, and scare off The parents, the older adults, the disabled, those with lower income than me (if they exist) and generally reduce the total car-park usage to two or three cars a day, what do they gain from that???

I love the signs in the shops...
SAY NO TO PARKING CHARGES

and I love the fact that the local shops and traders are aware of the problems this could cause.

Right now this is all hypothetical, and I respect that fact that surly the council will have to do some form of fact finding / market research in order to find out whether these hi-way-man machines would be financially viable... But alas I fear I may not be talking about our council... the council which, well, not all choices have been smiled at as great ideas in the past.

Thank you

The Animal
Not paying to park

The Animal
Posts: 2

... ... Bottom line
Reply #26 on : Sun March 09, 2014, 17:04:55

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Sorry, just to make clear.

I wont be paying to park in Wincanton

So you can keep it free or be prepared to put 500'000 parking tickets on my car, I wont pay them off either, as I don't believe this is a fair way of grabbing money off us.

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